Thursday, November 29, 2012

But N doesn't matter!

I could be wrong, but I am of the opinion that most women understand a past in professional pornography is unlikely to be considered a marital plus, as is the case in this unfortunate case of belated disclosure:
My wife and I have been married for five years. I recently discovered that she made between 10 and 20 porn videos when she was 19. We got married when she was 27. We have four kids from two previous marriages. I am devastated. When I confronted her about it, she cried harder than I had ever seen. She said she was lost, and it's the biggest regret of her entire life.
Apparently she was either caught off-guard or wasn't quick enough to turn the situation around and make it all his fault for watching porn.  But consider that we're probably talking an N of somewhere between 10 and 50 on the basis of the professional activity alone.  For the sake of argument, we'll settle on 30.

If women are capable of grasping that it is extremely distasteful for a man to marry a woman with an N of 30 on the basis of her career in film, then why is it difficult for some of them to understand that providing the same sexual services free of charge is not any more acceptable to men, regardless of whether or not there were cameras involved?

A basic rule of film-making is that the monster is always more frightening when it isn't shown.  So, the idea that the pornographic past is intrinsically worse than an equally high amateur N is dubious.  After all, what's worse.  A woman telling you that she did it for the money, or because she simply wanted to.  And who is more likely to be unfaithful, the woman who historically puts out for cash or the woman who historically puts out because she just feels like it?

55 comments:

taterearl said...

"I recently discovered that she made between 10 and 20 porn videos when she was 19. We got married when she was 27. We have four kids from two previous marriages."

No part of that statement sounds like good marriage material. You could have told me the last sentence and it still wouldn't have been good. Divorce and kids from previous marriage is pretty much puts the next marriage at higher odds for divorce.

N does matter ladies....you might sneak it by some willing beta who doesn't know better, but even he will find out eventually.

JartStar said...

She’s crying and kept the past hidden because she understands, perhaps because of her past, the low value men put on women with high N. Even if they stay together she knows he will never look at her the same way again.

Anonymous said...

One wonders what is her excuse going to be the next time he wants sex and she "isn't in the mood."

One also wonders what his response will be.

Anonymous said...

It is worse because it is much more likely that friends, family, kids, kids' friends, etc. will find out about her sluttiness. Can you imagine your kids' friends sitting around watching your wife get pounded by strange dudes? The kids will be tortured relentlessly at school if even one of their classmates find out. So, yes, it is much worse for your wife to have made porn than for her to have ridden the carousel in college with the same number of dudes.

herman said...

Not sure in what manner alphas frown upon N, but for men like me who have failed to garner measurable interest from women who are not fat or otherwise unattractive, N is personal. N other than zero is an insult. I accept that I cannot have the most desirable women. I do not accept that I must have someone’s leftovers.

Just A Girl said...

The terms "sexual services" doesn't sit right with me. It seems to imply that a woman who sleeps with a man (not for money) is doing him a favor, rather than for her own gain (or perceived gain, for argument's sake). It's my understanding that a high N count is distasteful to men both viscerally and If you don't mind, Vox, would you elaborate upon that word choice, please? Thanks.

Just A Girl said...

I was going to say, "a high N is distasteful to men both viscerally and because it indicates the woman values her immediate pleasure (and/or her attempt to win over or keep a man) over her relationship with her eventual life partner. Do I misunderstand?"

Sorry about that.

boxingalcibiades said...

@JustAGirl: I think you'd find that the actual values of said gal can vary considerably, but that the universal denominator is a much higher likelihood of said woman cheating on the man or else divorcing him in order to "trade up."

This is why men distinguish between "dates" and "keepers."

taterearl said...

N < 0 reduces your value a lot.

It was one of those many lies feminism spread that being a sexually active woman was a good thing.

Scott said...

I wonder how many of the women claiming "the past is the past" and "we shouldn't shame people because of their sexuality" would feel the same way if the wife discovered 10-15 gay pornos her husband starred in.

Daniel said...

1 video would be the "biggest regret of her life."

10?

That's just business.

There's something else at work here: married her at 27, raising each others' (I assume, unless she has 4 kids from 2 previous marriages, and he's being white knightedly "polite") kids, and now she's 32 and they still haven't had a child together?

That, my friends, is a picture of familial necrosis.

Those respective family trees are the sort you might find in the shadow of Orthanc. Yikes.

I'd be very surprised if this one makes it to the 7 year itch. The fellow just got rolled in poison ivy.

Daniel said...

N < 0 reduces your value a lot.

That typo made me laugh. If science has figured out how to unsuck the proverbial, I need to get back to work on my perpetual motion machine.

taterearl said...

Well obviously I was talking about the hymen reconstructive surgery women get.

But yeah I meant N > 0. Coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

TLM said...

Check out the man's entire letter to Dear Abby. And then this gem.......We have had a great life and I trust her completely.......

You can't fix stupid.

Cail Corishev said...

Funny how it's "between 10 and 20." She doesn't remember how many any closer than that? How high was she that year?

An N of 30 in porn is worse than an N of 30 in college, even if no one ever finds out, because there's a sense in which she shared herself with all the men who watched the videos, in addition to the ones she actually had sex with.

Imagine if you found out your wife worked in a live peep show for a year, wearing a mask and playing with herself while guys watched. No one ever touched her, and there's no chance anyone will ever recognize her. No big deal?

A man hates the idea of other men seeing his woman naked almost as much as the idea of them touching her. This is almost as bad as finding out she spent that year as a prostitute, with N=1000. And of course, the betrayal is the worst part either way.

Yohami said...

30 in the videos... and how many others did she do out of work?

Yohami said...

A hard worker girl also needs to relax and is entitled to some fun and enjoyment.

Mr. Nightstick said...

The most troubling aspect of this post is that Vox was reading Dear Abby.

SarahsDaughter said...

"The terms "sexual services" doesn't sit right with me. It seems to imply that a woman who sleeps with a man (not for money) is doing him a favor" - Just A Girl

Regardless of a woman's intentions, feelings, justifications, what else is it to a man? If she is the means in which he achieves/receives his tingle, it is a service - cuz...the tingle is what he wanted. If doing him the favor fulfills her desires too than there's a mutual benefit. Though it is only rare outliers of women that truly view their promiscuity, prior to marriage, positively.

"One wonders what is her excuse going to be the next time he wants sex and she "isn't in the mood."" -Anon

When a woman has done that many men a favor, it is rightfully disturbing that she would deny her husband the favor any time he wants it.

From the Dear Abby letter: "I have my own skeletons and things that I would never mention"

From our personal experience, RLB told me all of his skeletons first before I told him mine. I'm not necessarily suggesting deception here, but if you want a woman to be honest about her past before committing to her, having a story she perceives as bad or worse than her own will help to get her to be truthful. At that point you can do with the information what you please.

Keep in mind her proclivity for projection as you do this.

This unfortunate soul does not understand women's desire for bad boys if he's kept skeletons in his closet. Even if it's gay sex, we women aren't right in the head, that might still turn us on, if our magical vagina keeps a man from wanting a another man...whooo hooo!

alphamale1 said...

Don't worry, someone like Rollo will pick her up, he doesn't mind. Think of the experience and skills she picked up!

gayalpha said...

Hey Vox you said you would slaughter infants if God commanded you to. Fine, pretty tough I guess. Would you do a gay gangbang though? Let's say you had to be the bottom.

taterearl said...

"The most troubling aspect of this post is that Vox was reading Dear Abby."

Not troubling at all...you read enough Dear Abby letters and you realize how much of a benefit it is to have a red pill mindset.

Don't bother reading her answers though.

Aeoli Pera said...

Just a Girl,

I'm going to explain this the way I would explain it to a man.

The terms "sexual services" doesn't sit right with me. It seems to imply that a woman who sleeps with a man (not for money) is doing him a favor, rather than for her own gain (or perceived gain, for argument's sake).

There's no distinction. It doesn't matter whether someone in a service industry enjoys their work. It's still a service (As some wag once mentioned, a lot of shoe salesmen are probably foot fetishists because they'd do the work for less money. But they're still salesmen.)

The rest of the context you've provided (slash speculated) is irrelevant. In the future, when you're concerned about someone's diction I suggest checking a dictionary first.

Anonymous said...

I've run into a slight personal dilemma with the women i've been dating post red-pill where subconsciously if I can sleep with a woman relatively quickly I automatically assume high N count and attraction quickly fades other than in the physical sense and not worth commitment.

My problem is part of the red-pill has also conditioned me to use game and seduce women quick and hard from the start, not "waiting for it" and getting to know each other and quickly moving on if things aren't always escalating physically.

Has anyone else experienced this? And is there a solution?

alphamale1 said...

Anon: that's the point, you're supposed to come at it supposing that the women you're dating are worthless first and maybe she'll prove herself worthy. It's fun for her! Just think of it as work, and move on quickly. It's the age of women, everything that happens must please them.

alphamale1 said...

You know, this would all go away if women stopped thinking of sex as a beautiful magical "celebration" to be experienced whenever possible, and started thinking of themselves as toilets to be kept as clean and pristine as possible until a man buys them. No one wants a public toilet.

taterearl said...

The solution is to get the thinking that women should have sex like men out of their minds.

Rid them of birth control and abortion, shame single motherhood, take them off the government teet...you better believe they would think long and hard before responding to a gina tingle. It would be better for women in the long run instead of riding the cock carousel to a life of ruin.

But since we are royally screwed...treat them like sluts until they prove their purity. And don't marry any of the easy ones.

Anonymous said...

Well the pornographic past N is worse than the equally large amateur N for the simple reason that the porn video star was not having sex for love.

Once the man realizes that sex is not equal to intimacy with this woman, then the two can never have truly intimate sex. The woman with the large amateur N has problems too: the man is inheriting all of the previous' men's baggage. He will be constantly shit tested against them and he will be expected to measure up against the best of all of them. But, a least in theory, it is still possible to be intimate with this woman.

Daniel said...

That's a false split: amateur N is done for all sorts of reasons, least of which "love."

Only a gamma would (dishonestly, in my opinion, but I'm not in their heads) openly distinguish his gal's past into reasons - oh, well, she loved that guy, so that one doesn't bother me as much as the blackout one-nighters.

A man who does not realize that NO women equates intimacy with sex (as a permanent thing) is only fooling himself.

To a woman, sex can be a lot of things, but it is not the permanent equivalent to intimacy. A wise woman pursues sex for marriage intimacy, for sure, but even this poor sap had to realize before now that he most certainly did not marry a wise woman.

Women like sex for the pleasure, they like it for the power, they like it for submission, they like it for emotions, they like it for exchange, they like it for protection, they like it for status. She will always pursue it (or avoid it) for a number of reasons almost exclusively filtered through her own lens.

If a husband is shocked by his wife's undulating sexual landscape, then he simply doesn't understand her for who she is.

If anything, the past N "for love" candidates can be the most bothersome to husband when they realize that those are the lovers she may be also wondering about when the couple is not in bed...

Ras Al Ghul said...

None of you are looking at this in the right light.

They have four kids, its a terrible economy.

She's 27, so possibly a MILF.

The man has a gold mine for his family in "amatuer porn" and "couple porn."

When you get handed a lemon, make lemonaid.

Or to modernize it.

When you marry a porn star, start making porn!

Just A Girl said...

Aeoli Pera:

Thanks for the response. I didn't understand something, so I clarification from the source. Your response was insightful to me because it never occurred to me that most men think of their sexual partners as service providers. I think of my fiance as my partner in play, sexually. I can't find a way to reconcile those views. I'll have to ask my man about it.

I'd still love to hear Vox's response, of course =)

Just A Girl said...

alphamale1:

The toilet simile reminds me of the kool-aid simile. Harsh, but an accurate description of how reputations are affected by promiscuity.

Joe Blow said...

"Dear Abby, it turns out my wife is a lying whore. I probably wouldn't mind the whore part - she's the hottest girl I ever pulled - but she lied to me and I found out she was the girl in that historic gang bang in Kokomo. She's really upset that I found out and I don't know what to do. It's not really her fault. She was dating this guy, he was sort of a boyfriend, and he'd take her to these apartments, film her having sex, give her some money, and then put the films on the internet. Can you believe that? Yeah, neither can I. She's really traumatized by it. She's still working through some issues, and that boyfriend of hers, the one who put the videos on the internet, still bugs her from time to time. Turns out she's still Facebook friends with him, as am I. (You know I'm going to defriend him no later than this weekend, right? He's no good.)

Anyhow, I've asked my friends for advice. My friend Joe Blow says she's not a charity case, I shouldn't White Knight it here. He said it might be possible to be all Joe Christian and try to save the marriage, but that I probably didn't have the stomach to dominate her the way she needed to be dominated. So he said that if I had any sense I'd kick her and her demonspawn out of the house, tell her divorce papers would arrive within a week, and that if she had any thoughts of alimony or child support or taking the house, that a DVD of her Best Performances would be heading to her mom's house, her workplace and her church book club group. But he's mean and I don't agree.

What do you think I should I do here? I know I shouldn't be judgmental and go slut-shaming her, but I can't get the image of her at that gangbang with the NY Knicks, the image burned into my retinas, off my mind. I know it shouldn't bother me but it does, I just don't feel worthy of her to think about her this way while she's suffering so much.

So please help me.

Thanks in advance!

Herb"

Rollo Tomassi said...

Ah, c'mon, you're all being to hard on this girl. Even prostitutes can make great wives if they're forgiven by churchianity, right?

http://www.noisecreep.com/2011/11/03/hookers-for-jesus-annie-lobert-interview/

Anonymous said...

The upside of this is there is no excuse for her not to do anal/swallow. Dirty Sanchez is optional.

Orion said...

Just A Girl said...

Aeoli Pera:

Thanks for the response. I didn't understand something, so I clarification from the source. Your response was insightful to me because it never occurred to me that most men think of their sexual partners as service providers. I think of my fiance as my partner in play, sexually. I can't find a way to reconcile those views. I'll have to ask my man about it.

I'd still love to hear Vox's response, of course =)
November 29, 2012 10:19 AM


Another way to think of it is this. Sex with one partner only is unique and something you literally can't get everywhere. Sex with many is literally available everywhere and there for not unique but run of the mill. It is reduced to another mechanical function. Mechanical functions are turned into services which can be done at piece rate.

whoism3 said...

Being a slut tells you a lot about how you value commitment. If you value something, you don't toss it aside for a bit of 'fun' when it becomes politically convenient.

Like many 'catholics' i know of the cafeteria variety who profess how much their religion means to them and how much they value their relationship to god.. cast it aside once it gets 'too hard' to uphold a value and stay within the guidelines set forth. In that case they bend reality in order to stay within the confines of 'valueing' it, beit commitment or religion.

you say you value commitment, but slut around. you don't value commitment.

you say you value religion, but support abortion. you don't value the word of god you profess to.

you say you value your health, but smoke 2 packs a day and drink 4 litres of coke.

as a former smoker, i tell people i REGRET smoking for 17 years, (i don't extoll the virtues of smoking and tell people to live it up while they're young and smoke their lungs away) and if i get cancer for whatever reason.. i will always have my own actions to blame for as a possible repercussion of my actions. so in this case, you can call me a 'reformed slut'. i knew i shouldn't have smoked and now live a healthy lifestyle and tell others to try and live it and AVOID it because healthy living is much better. while it might seem hypocritical, it's not. hypocritical is if i told people i had no regrets to smoking, told young kids to light up and enjoy their youth, that they can kick the habit later in life and 100% will not get cancer from it.

the higher your N, the greater a chance your going to walk out of the doctors office staring at an xray of a black spot on your lung.

Jacob Ian Stalk said...

Some commenters here appear to be attempting to rationalise away whorish behaviour. The simple truth is that men do not want to marry a whore.

Every man a woman sleeps with takes a part of her treasure. N=2-5 is tolerable to a husband as some treasure may be left for him. N=5+ is intolerable as not even a saintly woman can regain this much of what she has lost unless she knows God.

Every woman a man sleeps with gives a part of her treasure to him but takes a part of his hunger. N=50 is tolerable for the average wife as male hunger diminishes much more slowly. Of course, a man will grow fat and lazy if he eats only junk food.

Just A Girl said...

Orion,

Thanks, that's much more clear. "A sex life with _______" (where the blank is the name of the man's mate) is something different than just "sex with a woman."

taterearl said...

"Ah, c'mon, you're all being to hard on this girl. Even prostitutes can make great wives if they're forgiven by churchianity, right?"

They might be all right with God, and ok with me as a fellow human being. They won't be my wife.

Not everyone is cut out for marriage...it isn't a right.

Brad Andrews said...

"N=50 is tolerable for the average wife as male hunger diminishes much more slowly."

Can you provide some validation of that. I do not believe I would have been fine with it, but then I got married a couple of decades ago.

Johmycomelately said...

Sad thing is it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between a porn star and a low count woman. If anything a high count woman will play the innocent card while a low count woman will try her hardest to look sexual.

Prof Ashur said...

My guess is his "skeletons" are fairly normal.

Hers are that she has been drilled like an oil field.

Ditch her. She is trash, and unrecoverable.

. said...

"Funny how it's "between 10 and 20." She doesn't remember how many any closer than that?"

After the tenth big throbbing schlong, it all turns into a blur.

"Well the pornographic past N is worse than the equally large amateur N for the simple reason that the porn video star was not having sex for love."

Any amateur N > 2 wasn't done for love, either.

. said...

Dear Abby's advice to this poor fool was HORRIBLE.

As usual, Team Woman sticks together.

Jack Amok said...

A high amateur N indicates she's prone to serial relationships and unable to form stable relationships which makes her pretty poor marriage material. A pro N doesn't necessarily say she can't form stable relationships, so from strictly that point, amateur N is worse than pro.

But...

Making pornos is a pretty good indication of all sorts of other problems you don't want to have to deal with.

Brad Andrews said...

> Dear Abby's advice to this poor fool was HORRIBLE.

She did tell the second letter writer to leave, so she was not wrong at all times.

. said...

If she doesn't tell a man to leave a lying whore, her advice is invalid under all circumstances as far as I'm concerned.

Duke of Earl said...

She would have been lying if asked and she'd said "no." It probably wasn't something he brought up in conversation.

"Honey, have you ever appeared in pornographic movies?," is not a question I see people asking often.

A whore? Yes, I'd say that having sex in exchange for money qualifies her for that.

In answer to Vox's question, I wouldn't rate either highly, but a woman who'd been having sex for money would rate slightly higher than one who was putting it all out for fun. That said, the professional probably puts in a few hours outside of work too, so it probably works out the same.

JRL said...

Scientific hypothesis: men who think anal is hot will accept a much higher N than men who think anal is nasty. Women who think anal is hot are drug addicts.

Höllenhund said...

"An N of 30 in porn is worse than an N of 30 in college, even if no one ever finds out, because there's a sense in which she shared herself with all the men who watched the videos, in addition to the ones she actually had sex with."

I'll have to disagree. N = 30 in porn: a sign of being a money-hungry, unscrupulous slut. N = 30 in college: a sign of being an unscrupulous slut with hypergamy in overdrive, and no self-control or future time orientation whatsoever. The latter is clearly a worse pick for marriage.

Badger said...

I don't think women are ever going to really grok the following truism:

Sexual access is the highest compliment a woman can pay a man.

All this chatter of "I was lost" or "he was just a fling, I didn't really looooove him" or "but YOU are getting the REAL ME! I didn't share that with him!" is just a bunch of static. Sexual access is the highest compliment you can give a man, and if you've given those compliments a lot, a guy is going to think you don't really value any particular guy, especially the guy you've pledged to love the rest of your life.

As someone else said, she's in big trouble the first time she says she's not in the mood.

Although I suspect this letter is partially fiction (advice columns tend to fabricate letters or guss up real ones for better content), this also shows it's a dumb move to marry a young single mom as she has already demonstrated a history of bad sexual choices.

Badger said...

Who knew this letter was actually about Emma Watson.

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/emma_stone_sex_tape_shocker_report_7R32fTa7fL0j0iV97JuNJL?utm_campaign=OutbrainA&utm_source=OutbrainArticlepages&obref=obinsite

Anonymous said...

Just goes to show that those Ayn Randian "Alpha Males," are just insecure betas.

Anonymous said...

My mother always told me "beware of women you can get into bed too quickly, you don't know how many other men have been there first".
It's funny how the same sentence spoken by my father would be treated differently.

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